johnsmachines

machines which I have made, am making, or intend to make, and some other stuff. If you find this site interesting, please leave a comment. I read every comment and respond to most. n.b. There is a list of my first 800 posts in my post of 17 June 2021, titled "800 Posts"

Tag: Fagor

CNC MILL 9

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Yesterday I cut some metal on the CNC mill for the first time.
I used one of the canned cycles built into the CNC controller, and faced and squared off a lump of brass which will be used for a hot air engine (The Ridder “bobber”).
Despite multiple readings of the manual, I got confused about which units required minus signs, and which ones the machine automatically assumed were positive and negative, and consequently, despite resting my hand on the emergency stop button in case such a contingency occurred, the head crashed straight into the milling vice, breaking 4 carbide tips and leaving a permanent love bite on the vice as a reminder of my incompetence.
After some expletives deleted, I re-entered the numbers, and next time, the machine went through its motions gracefully, purposefully, and quietly, leaving me with a nicely shiny and squared lump of brass.
It was so impressive, that I repeated the exercise, just for fun.
I had checked the squareness of the mill head to the table, and it was all within 0.01mm in 100mm, so nothing was altered.
I had bought a Z axis probe from CTC Tools in Hong Kong, and that was easy to use and accurate, for $a100.
Next step, to hook up a computer and try to download G code programs. Watch this space.

CNC MILL 8

Another day, another problem solved….
I am sure that these ramblings are incredibly boring to everyone, so understand that I am recording them for my own benefit, as a diary, as much as for the interest of anyone else who might be thinking of leaping into buying an older CNC mill.
So today I looked at the lubrication pump.
The manual says that it operates automatically on machine startup, then every 30 minutes, as long as the oil pressure is not too high. But the pump showed absolutely no sign of functioning at any time. And the ways and ball screws were totally dry until I lubricated them with an oil can.
Today I spent hours tracing wires and looking at relays, until my friend Jason S, who is a machine designer, came and had a look for me. He put a multi meter on the wires, and everything seemed intact. Then he identified the appropriate contactor (which I gather is really a big relay), and held it in, and lo and behold the pump worked. So the problem was with the pump controlling mechanism. Then Jason surmised that if he had designed the mill, he would have had the lubrication pump working only if the ball screws and ways were actually in use, not just if the machine was switched on. So next test was to watch the pump with the ball screws activated. Lo and behold the pump worked! So what was the problem? Why was the oil not coming through?
We disconnected some oil lines, and they were dry. So we manually pumped the lubrication pump until the lines filled, (i.e. primed them) and tried the lubrication system again, with the axes working, and it worked!

So the bloody manual was misleading. The lubrication system does not work when the machine is switched on. It only works when the ball screws are operating. And the machine has been out of action for so long that the oil lines had dried out.

Another gripe with the manual, was when I tried to get a canned cycle working (dry run, with no work piece or cutter). I followed the instruction steps exactly, and nothing happened. I retried, with the same result. I tried another canned cycle… same result. Then Jason arrived, and followed the steps.. same result. Then he said “what is that DATA button for? I had no idea. It is not mentioned in the manual. So we tried pushing it, and halelujah, the canned cycle worked.
So why was it not mentioned in the manual ?????
Do people who write manuals, ever test their own instructions? Or try them with an end user???
So bloody frustrating and such a waste of time.

(note added a few days later… I found the DATA key described in a different section of the manual. My mistake, it was there all of the time. If I had read the manual from start to finish entirely, and remembered the entire 150 pages – or whatever – I would not have had the problem. Silly me. )

Anyway, another step towards making some chips.

So now for the final test, the hookup with a computer using a serial port. Fortunately I have an old computer with a serial port, and I will hook it up soon.

CNC MILL 7

Z axis problem fixed!

My friend Stuart T methodically checked the wires and connections, and diagnosed a problem involving the Z axis encoder.  He  resorted to removing the encoder, to look at it more closely, and said ” that came off a bit too easily.  I wonder if the shaft is connecting properly”.  Sure enough, the shaft was loose, which explains the bizarre Z movements followed by a total loss of position information.  Someone has joined the 6mm shaft to a 1/4″ socket, and it had probably worked loose during the transport from Echuca to Geelong.

So we quickly made a sleeve to join the 6mm shaft to the 6.35mm socket, tightened it all up,  soldered a few wires which broke during the inspection, and hooray it all worked perfectly. Hallelujah.

Oh, and that $20 Chinese hand wheel.  It was 10 mm thicker than the originals, and looked out of place, so I chucked in the the lathe, and turned it down to the same 18mm thickness  as the originals.  It was made of hard plastic-bakelite material which smelled really offensive while I was machining it, and was very abrasive.  Tool steel lathe bits were just worn away, but a carbide insert tool coped OK.   The reshaped hand wheel  looks and feels much better.

Just the oil lubrication pump to fix, then I can start making chips.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                             

 

CNC MILL 6

Help!

I need a wiring diagram for the Extron mill.

It is a Hafco badged machine, but Hafco (Hare & Forbes) do not have wiring info.  The Extron factory in Taiwan has not replied to my emails.  Hare & Forbes apparently contacted the factory, and also drew a blank about wiring info.

That is pretty unimpressive.  The machine is only 17 years old.  In built obsolescence?  Just not worth while supporting older machines?  If it was a US or European machine there would be no problem getting info.  It seems that this Asian factory has a different idea about what constitutes support.  

Fortunately I have an expert friend who will, I am confident, be able to work it out.  

 

CNC MILL 5 with some more pics

The broken X axis hand wheel.  replacement from China for $a20, including postage....

The broken X axis hand wheel. replacement from China for $a20, including postage….

The replacement folding handle hand wheels arrived from Hong Kong today. I was slightly disappointed in the quality, but then, for $a20 each, including postage, I am not complaining. They are close in appearance to the originals.

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The new hand wheel fitted. On the table is a spare new hand wheel, and the broken one. I am considering machining the new one, to be closer in dimensions to the old one.

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This is the pneumatic draw bar motor and spring loaded engagement gear. It is now functioning!! I rebuilt a badly corroded valve, and remade a gasket, and hooray, it works perfectly. Still to replace the cover which keeps the dust out of the device. That saves $a700+ for a replacement, and gives me confidence to work on these precision items in the future. The motor behind the draw bar motor is the main spindle motor, a 6hp 3 phase motor with a very noisy fan which is another job for down the track. One thing at a time. We are getting there. I have contacted Extron Corp in Taiwan, in the hope of getting a wiring diagram, so I can look at the oil distribution pump and controller and locate the relay, which I suspect will be the culprit. It does feel good to have fixed 2 of the 5 or 6 problems with this machine.

CNC Mill 4 (with some pics)

Now that I have a couple of days cleaning off the carelessly applied paint, I am prepared to show some photos.
The trouble with a 17 year old machine, even if it has done little work, is that repairs are required before it can be used.
1. New hand wheel
2. Z axis acting strangely. ? encoder faulty, or broken wires.
3. Pneumatic drawbar not working ? needs replacing.
4. Auto lubrication system not functioning. ? relay faulty, other problem.
5. Operator needs considerable training.

The only available space in my workshop was in front of the door

The only available space in my workshop was in front of the door

Showing the table, with the tool rests removed, the hand wheels including the broken X axis hand wheel, the turret and the electrical box

The broken X axis hand wheel.  replacement from China for $a20, including postage....

The broken X axis hand wheel. replacement from China for $a20, including postage….

Showing the X axis ball screw, the hand wheel gearing, and the coated way (? Teflon)

Showing the X axis ball screw, the hand wheel gearing, and the coated way (? Teflon)

The control box for the pneumatic power drawbar (not working), and the automatic lubrication pump and reservoir (also not working).

The control box for the pneumatic power drawbar (not working), and the automatic lubrication pump and reservoir (also not working).

The CNC input control panel.  I am still learning how to use this.

The CNC input control panel. I am still learning how to use this.

CNC Mill 2

I was on call over the weekend, so I had today off, and spent it in the workshop. It was cold. Jumper plus oilskin cold.
I crow-barred the space for the new mill, levelled the mill with a machinists level. One foot was missing so I turned up a new one… 75mm dia, 16mm thick, with a 20mm dia recess to accept the levelling bolt.
Then I started to tidy up the awful paint job, scraping paint off the machined parts, and using my Dremel to wire brush it off plastic parts. Starting to look more respectable.
Then I found a hand wheel control lever stop made from a rolled tube which had broken off at surface level. It was hardened, as I discovered when I tried to drill it out… changed the drill bit to mush. So I used the Dremel with a carbide bit to grind it out. That worked, but it took a lot of time, and I ended up with an irregular hole which I then drilled out to 5mm and tapped 6mm. I have inserted a temporary 6mm cap screw as the stop, and it works but looks a bit gross. Needs a tidy up.
The 3 phase lead does not reach my converter, so I have to replace it with a longer one. The plug is new, so I will re-use that. I have some 20 amp 4 wire lead, so I will use that. Maybe next weekend I will get to fire it up. Saturday is out though. Geelong – Hawthorn AFL game takes precendence.
I need to make some T nuts to suit the 18mm T slots. They are bigger than any machine I have previously owned. I will tap them to accept 12mm studs, rather than the recommended 16mm studs. I already have the 12mm studs, and I cannot see that I will need the bigger ones. If i was to use the table capacity of 900kg the big ones would be useful.

New Toy

I have been looking for a CNC milling machine for over a year. My requirements were that it had to be affordable, not too big for my workshop, not too big for my 3 phase converter (max 5hp), use Mach 3, and be in reasonable condition.

What I got was good value I hope, big, 6hp, does not use Mach 3, but I think that it is in reasonable condition.

See photo below.

It is an Extron (Taiwonese) 1997 model, vertical CNC mill, which uses a Fagor controller (not Mach 3), weighs 2.8 tonnes, and is BIG. Too big really, and I hope that I never have to move it again. It required a crane to lift it onto the truck which I borrowed from my neighbour. The truck (and me now, and the mill) smell of pig shit, because that is what the truck was used for the day before. But the 550km round trip to pick it up was completed safely. Now I have to organise a crane at my shed to lift it onto a steel plate outside my shed, from where I can push it into position (on rollers).

That was the longest truck trip I have driven since getting my heavy rigid licence a few years ago, and I feel quite proud to have completed it without a problem.

I will fire the mill up next weekend. Wish me luck.

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