johnsmachines

machines which I have made, am making, or intend to make, and some other stuff. If you find this site interesting, please leave a comment. I read every comment and respond to most. n.b. There is a list of my first 800 posts in my post of 17 June 2021, titled "800 Posts"

Tag: HMS Bellerophon

HMS Bellerophon. 1- Making Plans

I intend to make a model 74 gun ship, and I have decided to take a risk, and do a scratch build. i.e. to not make the 74 from a kit.

My first experience of using a wooden kit, was USS Constitution, from Mamoli. As a beginner, it was not the best choice. Many parts were not accurately cut. In fact they were obviously hand cut, with all of the inaccuracies that method entails. A later kit, for the Khufu pyramid ship, was much more accurate, and was a pleasure to assemble. It was laser cut.

And, as result of my own reading and “research”, I made various modifications to the Constitution plans. For example I made the ships boats from another supplier (Shicheng). And I made all of the model ropes instead of using those supplied.

For a first effort, the result was OK.

USS Constitution in its case.

But there were mistakes, and misinterpretations of the instructions and plans.

The most satisfying parts of the build were the bits where I made parts from scratch.

So, my next build will be from scratch.

But, I want to work from plans.

So I have bought books (The Seventy Four Gun Ship by Jean Boudriot, Building The Wooden Fighting Ship by Doods and Moore, and quite a few other books); and plans (from Ancre, for an admiralty style hull, and HMS Vanguard from Victory Models).

Eventually I settled on the Victory Models plans. They are simpler and more suitable for my skill level, and will probably take a fraction of the time to complete vis a vis the Ancre/Boudriot plans. Even so, I expect that the build will take at least a year, despite my habit of working quickly.

The first step was to get the plans scanned, a copy printed, and electronic copies on my computer. I chose to have the printed copy on heavy duty paper, almost cardboard, so I could make cutout templates if required. That was not cheap. 20 x A1 prints plus the electronic pdf’s was $aud275. When I felt the weight of the printed versions, I felt better about the price. They are quite substantially heavy.

Then I decided to have the keel, bulkheads, decks etc laser cut. I do have a scroll saw, and considerable wood working experience, but the speed and accuracy of laser cutting was persuasive.

My electronic version of the Victory Models plans was in the form of pdf’s. The laser cutting service requires dxf’s. I do not have sophisticated software to convert pdf’s to dxf’s, but I do have a simple free program called “Print2Cad”.

So I converted one page of the plans as an experiment.

Print2cad processed the plan quickly, and I saved the converted plan as a dxf.

AutoCAD 2024 opened the dxf. (Hobbiest version of AutoCAD).

It opened normally and superficially looked good. But when I zoomed into the parts there were multiple problems. Many sharp corners had converted to arcs. And many straight lines were converted to arcs.

So I was committed to spending many hours to tidying up the converted dxf.

Then a bigger problem surfaced. The bulkheads, keel, decks and beams were to be cut from 5mm ply. The slots and joins were planned around 5mm ply. So off I went to my local ply supplier, calipers in hand, to measure the exact thickness of their ply. 3mm, 4.5mm, 6mm, no problem. BUT NO 5mm!!

I went home and searched the net for other suppliers. No-one supplies 5mm ply. Except some packaging ply is said to be 5mm, but it looked rough and knotty, and the one which I measured was actually 4.5mm anyway, and not very rigid.

I mulled over this for a week or two. Revisited the idea of making an admiralty model from solid wood. Wondered about changing the Victory Model plans to use 6mm ply. That was going to take a lot of hours, and no doubt there would be unintended consequences from the changes.

I did consider getting the laser cut pieces as planned for 5mm slots, and widening the slots to 6mm as required, one by one.

However, at this point of time, I have spent most of the past 3 days redrawing the plans to use 6mm marine ply, widening the slots, and fixing the unwanted arcs into straight lines.

I realise that there will be unintended consequences of these changes, and I have tried to anticipate them as far as possible. Since all of these plywood parts are buried out of sight, I should be able to cut and fill where necessary, and even remake parts totally. With wood, one can use glue to add extra wood, pack with chips/sawdust or builders bog, or chisel and saw unwanted bits. There is always a solution.

Meanwhile I am waiting for a cost estimate from the laser service. (JR Laser, North Geelong).

This is 1200mm x 900mm. I have not counted the parts. Approx 100. Since every line will be cut, I have had to remove all identifying names and numbers. It is 2 of the 20 original plan pages, modified and combined. Many parts are similar, varying only in small dimensions. I do hope that I will be able to identify the parts.

Incidentally, the plans are actually for HMS Vanguard. I am intending to make HMS Bellerophon, which was almost identical in all aspects, except for decorations, figurehead etc. Both were Ardent class, ships of the line, 3rd rates. They were heavily armed, strongly built, reasonably fast ships. Complement 550.

HMS Bellerophon 1786

Next Build

I knew that making a model of USS Constitution would be a learning exercise. And that mistakes would be made, new techniques learned, new tools purchased and made. And I did make many mistakes. But the end result was OK. Good enough that one of my daughters said that she would like to have it. And good enough for a prize at the local show.

Maybe the mistakes were not that bad. In any case, I have decided to make another model sailing ship, building on the experience obtained from Constitution.

The next model will be a ship “of the line”. That is, a battleship which was built to take the severe punishment of a fleet action, like Trafalgar 1805, or The Nile 1798. These ships were floating gun platforms, mounting guns up to 36 or even 42 pounders. Not as fast as frigates, but definitely more powerful.

In the British and French navies 1750-1800, the most commonly built ship of the line was the 74 gun ship. Both navies built almost 200 of these class 3 ships of the line. The French first produced them, but when their power and sailing qualities became obvious, the British followed. The British admired the design and build quality of the French ships, and produced their own version, after capturing and copying French versions.

The 74’s were large ships for their era, weighing 3000 tons fully gunned and provisioned. (c.f. Constitution – 2000 tons fully loaded). They mounted 74 guns, on 2 roofed gun decks and the exposed top deck.

For the model I have a dilemma. Do I make a model with hull planking, masts and rigging (like my Constitution in the photo), or an “Admiralty” model, which is hull only, showing the curvaceous hull framing timbers, no or minimal planks, and no masts and rigging.

Example of an Admiralty model under construction.
each one of those frames is made of 12-14 individual parts and this photo shows only the forward section. Only 2 of the frames are the same… the rest are all unique. And the decks and beams and internal details are yet to be added. A beautiful, organic shape to be sure.
This brigantine is under construction by Australian master modeller Tim Gee.
And this is a truly magnificent model of a French 74 made by Russian master modeller D. Shevelev.
The detail is extraordinary. 6 years to complete. See Ships of Scale for many photos.

If only I had started this hobby 20 or 30 years ago!

To help me with my dilemma, and for more information I borrowed some plans of a British 74, HMS Vanguard, and also purchased a set of 4 books from Ancre, France…

These books by Jean Boudriot (dec) are translated into English. Volume 1 is about the hull. Vol 2 is the hull fittings, Vol 3 is the masts, sails and rigging, and Vol 4 is about the seamanship and sailing of the 74. They were listed as second hand, but in fact were all brand new, but slightly damaged. They had all been dropped at at some time, and the covers corners were crumpled. I spent some time repairing or minimising the damage by dampening the crumpled corners then squeezing them with woodworking cramps until dry. That worked pretty well. Postage from France ($aud200 !!), was covered by the price reduction. Expensive books, but they are lovely to read and beautiful to hold and behold. Very detailed, and will be read and re-read many times. The author, Jean Boudriot, was an architect, and his diagrams and drawings are superb. The text is conversational and entertaining. There are many and detailed plans of the un-named ship, but they are about the full size ship, and not ideal for the modeller. So the publisher (Ancre) also has plans drawn by an expert modeller, at extra cost. I ordered those extra plans separately and paid more extortionate postage to get them. They are very detailed. Should have added them to my initial books order. Would have saved $aud100.

The HMS Vanguard plans also apply to HMS Elephant, and HMS Bellerophon, which had variations mainly in the stern decorations. If I use those plans, it would be a bulkhead, keel, and planking construction, with masts, rigging and possibly sails, but no interior or hull framing detail. A scratch build. And I would use the Bellerophon name and details because of the association with Napoleon Bonaparte. The Boudriot books would doubtless be used to confirm details.

If I do plunge into the Admiralty model….. 1. It might never be finished (I am 75 years old). 2. It might be beyond my abilities.

If I use the Vanguard plans …. 1. It might never be finished 2. It might be beyond my abilities. But at least I would get to use my rope making tools again.

In either case, it would be a challenge, and fun, at times. Maybe I should build 2 models…

Any opinions or feedback from readers?

p.s. Vale Les Madden, fellow modeller, razor sharp intellect, and friend. An inspiration to all who knew him.